Islam on the Problem of Suffering with Dr Abdullah Sueidi





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Chapters ::
0:00 – Introduction
0:17 – Background of Dr. Abdullah Sueidi
0:43 – Topic of the Discussion
1:00 – History of “The Problem of Evil”
2:14 – Atheists using the problem of evil as a central argument against God’s existence
4:58 – History of the Argument of the problem of evil as presented by Atheists/Agnostics
9:26 – The Logical Problem of Evil
14:18 – The Evidential Problem of Evil
17:07 – Subjective reasons for disbelief & reconciliation of faith with suffering
19:09 – Islamic response to the argument of Problem of Evil
23:54 – Arguments for the existence of God
30:46 – Human Vestigiality argument used by Darwinian Evolutions
33:40 – Attributes of God in Islam
39:51 – Judeo-Christian vs Islamic understanding of God’s nature
45:40 – God’s justice on the Day of Judgement
50:45 – Suffering of Kids & Worldly life vs Afterlife
53:22 – Fate of the people who’ve not heard about Islam
54:25 – Muslims striving to help the needy through Zakat and Sadaqah
56:36 – Suffering/evil posing a problem for Atheists
1:06:54 – Overview & Availability of Dr. Abdullah Sueidi’s Ph.D. work to the general public
1:09:13 – Book Recommendations regarding the problem of evil
1:10:18 – Wrapping Up

Video

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46 comentários em “Islam on the Problem of Suffering with Dr Abdullah Sueidi

  1. Thank you, Paul, for discussing this topic. When speaking about suffering, we should remember the suffering we cause ourselves and each other due to our own selfish, hasty, weak and fearful nature. We cannot always lay the cause of suffering at God's door; Satan, too, accuses God of leading him astray. We should remain mindful of our own arrogance and blindness.
    Muslims have always understood the fundamental need for suffering and the essential role it plays in the purification of the soul. From suffering we learn to know our selves, learn humility, develop patience and empathy, and embrace creativity and problem solving. Most importantly, suffering rewards us by sweetening prayer and unburdening us (we are utterly reliant on God). So that even when ease comes, we remain mindful of God.

  2. IS'NT IT TRUE TO SAY THAT EVIL/SUFFERING POSE A FAR FAR GREATER PROBLEM FOR ABRAHAMIC THEISTS THAN FOR ATHEISTS?
    Let me introduce myself. I am Not an atheist. I am agnostic. Let me also state that I am Not saying because evil and suffering exist therefore God does not exist. WHAT I am saying is that I do not see sufficient evidence for the existence of the Abrahamic God
    ——- A God who is omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent. As I see it it is far easier to logically reconcile suffering in a godless world than to believe in a omnipotent, omniscient omnibenovelent God who allows such appaling suffering in the world. The purpose of my presentation is to ask questions, not to debate. But u would also like intelligent logical, rational answers to my questions. I was brought up Catholic. So I don't want answers based on religious dogma.Like I said, I want intelligent, logical rational answers. As my questions will be rather long, I will have to subdivide my reply. I will be back in a mo.

  3. "exquisitely developed nervous system." OH yes, this why Fibromyalgia exists — a malfunction of the nervous system. You both are clowns.

  4. Do not forget the 'hand of man' that cause suffering: wars genocides, deforestation, famine, sickness, greed, etc Man is given free will. When he chooses to do evil we human beings suffer the consequences

  5. So this is a good response to Ehrman…..

    But we can do better….

    Why do I say we can do better….. ( and I totally apologize for being an armchair critic)

    But We can do better….. because we take so much for granted….. Assuming lots of things to be obvious…..

    And some of Ehrmans questions, actually 90% are really in this range… And I believe we are almost bewildered by them because no one has asked us these questions in a long time ( sometimes ….not even kids…. They tend to have filled in the gaps at some point as they were growing up)

    For instances the generally accepted Islamic narrative is that there were 124 thousand prophets…and 'never did we leave a people except that we sent a guide from amongst them ….'

    So Ehrman as well as other Atheists ask these questions ….. Like people have been around for perhaps 100 thousand years …. And then in the last 5 thousand years God became interested in them and sent them prophets…. And they complain about all the rest or the people who received no gudence…. Or people in other parts of the world…..

    Do they all go to hell forever…… ? Is that not unjust….

    So there is a base almost diagrammatic response needed ….. To fill in many simple gaps which we have easy answers to…..

    Then the last 10 % is an intelectual explaination …. Something to draw deeply on….

    I think we almost always dismiss the obvious then go on to talk about that 10 %…..

    When we should really try and clarify all those simple questions…. Then…. Worry about the last 10%

    I hope that makes some sense….. And is constructive criticism…..

  6. As-salamu akeikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh to brothers Paul and Abdullah.

    I actually listened to this twice and still don't know what to say. It is such a heavy topic.

    Job well done to the both of you.

    I would love to read Dr. Sueidi's work on the topic.

  7. Ma shaa Allah … I am really happy to hear Dr Abdullah .. may Allah increase his knowledge and make it beneficial to all

    The ayah that Dr Abdullah mentioned is from Surah al-Alaq (Q-96)
    كَلَّا إِنَّ الْإِنسَانَ لَيَطْغَىٰ (6) أَن رَّآهُ اسْتَغْنَىٰ (7)

    (6) No! [But] indeed, man transgresses
    (7) Because he sees himself self-sufficient

  8. Make firas zahabi and dr bart ehrnman discussion please…..on suffering….

  9. This, for me, is the best piece of content so far on BT tabaarakAllah.
    When you have people of the sunnah explaining any matter they refer to the Qur'an and Sunnah constantly. Absolutely wonderful. BaarakAllahufeekum

  10. All knowing God knows the past, the present, and the future. She knew, even before creating the universe, before creating the Satan, at some point the Satan would rebel, and eventually cause evil, sin, and suffering. Then, why to create him in the first place. Wouldn’t it be God’s will to create evil if She still proceeded with creating Satan. Wouldn’t it make God the source of evil. Wouldn’t it make God the evil.

  11. I wish that these lectures are uploaded on podcast. If it is, can someone comment the link of podcast please. Thanks jzakallah

  12. A wonderful discussion. I have watched it twice and have taken notes. Is there a way Paul, who I thank for a wonderful work he is doing – may Allah reward him for it immensely, can forward these rebuttals to Dr Bart Erhman please.

  13. A response to brother Paul for taking part in mocking and slandering brother Hany from Marvelous Channel https://youtu.be/QNIo84Ln5uk of something that brother Paul habe no knowledge about! Learn how a professional rebutted slander and hoodlums in a manner befitting the Quran!

  14. An excellent session. Alhamdulillah and Jazakallah. A book by Dr Nasrin Rouzati, "Trial and Tribulation in the Quran". It's an excellent book on this subject. Dr Rouzati's PhD thesis..Mr Paul may invite her as well. Tq

  15. This is really crucial discussion to have. Thank you brother Paul. Alhamdulillah for Muslims we have lesser problem with the "problem of suffering" in the world due to realistic worldview and the incredibly consistent theology of Islam. Islamic God concept with many many attributes of Allah demonstrated in the stories and lessons given in the Quran and Sunna resolve the issue theologically. Only duty of Muslims is of course first learn these truths, and more importantly patiently go through the life's difficulties inflicting us.

  16. According to Muslim thought, this world is not paradise/Janna, but a test for both the believers and the unbelievers. It's not a logical problem for Muslims that there is suffering in this world. If the problems are created by men, then God/Allah permits the believers to rectify the error and restore justice. If it was caused by natural causes, this would have been written (maktub) for the believers and they must persevere, for their reward is in al-Ākhira/afterlife. As Mr. Sweidi says here, the claim that the belief in God is incompatible with the reality of the world is refutable. Thank you, Paul, for bringing all those brilliant minds to speak on your channel!

  17. Jazak Allah uncle Paul for sharing this video by inviting this beautiful shaikh on your Chanel May Allah bless him I can see the shaikh isn’t fluent in English lol he was kind of struggling with the language but still the shaikh did a beautiful job may Allah grant him good health and a long life, Ameen

  18. Mash Allah jazakh Allah to uncle Paul for sharing this video I am soo happy for introduced me to this beautiful shaikh who taught in masjid nabawi Subhanallah such a blessed place to teach and come from Subhanallah the messenger of God. People actually don’t know what a true prophet or a messenger of God is they can be Muslims and non Muslims or the Christians they really don’t know who or what a prophet is they think a prophet is a divine human being who meditates and worships god and being nice to human beings, family, friends and just teaching morality that’s what they think of when they think of or the impression they have of a prophet like they some kind of guru meditating under a tree or something like that I use to think like this whenever I heard the word prophet. But Subhanallah they seriously don’t know or have a clue what it is to be the messenger of God, we call them prophets. They just see statue of Jesus nailed to the cross or the big beautiful blessed place masjid nabawi where the last and final messenger of God was buried. Only if they studied the last and final messenger of God prophet Muhammad and analysed his the message he came with which is the Quran (Gods words) once they have studied these or know the basic biography of prophet Muhammad and fully studied analysed the Quran which is a miracle indeed without a shadow of a doubt then they will clearly see the power beuty and wisdom these human beings (prophets) were blessed with by God. And whenever they see a statue of Jesus pbuh the Christians represent or see the mosque of the prophet Muhammad pbuh they will see it with a different prospective then it’ll make them think twice and wonder in amazement haw powerful human beings like these prophets existed and walked on this earth and the impact they left with on earth not even the media with all its technology colourful artistic skills will able to even come close to the impact Jesus pbuh had on earth within his 4 or say 5 years of his mission God sent him with, we’ve had tv running in our hoses more then 40, 50 years naw. And then on the other hand the media attacking Islam but it’s actually helping Islam spread more the more they attack the more people hear about it and those God guides through his wisdom study it and see the beauty and power of Islam. The media can’t even win over the work and message this human being came with (God’s words) 1400 years ago. Just imagine when Jesus pbuh returns and having the technology and media which they didn’t have at their time but still the impact they left with is equivalent or even more compared to the power of the media. If god willingly Just imagine inshallah haw easily Jesus pbuh will able to accomplish his mission on earth with all the media and technology we have around us

  19. I am keep learning so many new things after watching your video… May Almighty bless you.. Ameen

  20. In the discussion between Dr Bart Ehrman and Dr Lawrence Brown it was possible for viewers to leave with doubts or unanswered questions regarding some issues. Since then Dr Lawrence Brown's follow up discussion and this discussion seem to have covered that in order to address any potential doubts or unanswered questions that may have arisen from that session. Appreciate the deep thought and effort behind the 2 follow up videos, jazaak Allaah khayr

  21. Tough topic . Dr. Sueidi handled it cautiously, slowly , but surely.
    I do believe it is all about the “ Test “ from Almighty God and the vast meaning of it . Believers or unbelievers – all have to undergo tryouts with evil and good for them for a testing til their death.
    Here is the verse from The Qur’an :
    “ Every soul shall taste of death ; and we try you with evil and good for a testing ; then unto Us you shall be returned “. The Prophets : 36

  22. Atheists are failing to see the obvious and plain evidences for the existence of GOD like the creation and the design and consciousness and so on.but they try to figure out the details and wisdoms behind why certain things like Evil happen. It’s like trying to ask someone with sight problem to read some words on a whiteboard in front of him while the whiteboard itself isn’t visible to him.
    Another example is, if you are doing a research, first thing is to have a purpose and the second thing is to come up with concept and hypothesis. Atheists don’t know the purpose of life, and they ignore concepts like religion, logic and reason. It can be concluded that atheists have arrogance which blinds them, so they don’t see or hear.

  23. because its only for the believer who has both hardship and ease both ways as good.
    _____________
    Abu Yahya Suhaib bin Sinan (May Allah be pleased with him) reported that:

    The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "How wonderful is the case of a believer; there is good for him in everything and this applies only to a believer. If prosperity attends him, he expresses gratitude to Allah and that is good for him; and if adversity befalls him, he endures it patiently and that is better for him".

    [Muslim].

  24. Dear Paul, I Wanted to commend you for inviting Dr. Sueidi for a follow discussion on this topic. The commentary you added served well to galvanize the extraordinary arguments made by Dr. Sueidi. In my humble opinion this was an excellent representation from the Islamic stance on suffering and all of the aspects surrounding it. ⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️ Five stars from me. As secondary note, you’re are doing such phenomenal work, it gotten better and better as time has progressed!

  25. What's our struggle comparing with the prophet Muhammad pbuh him , all his life was struggle from childhood as growing an orphan kids poor adult and the tortured he got from kfar and most of his relatives and kids died in his life until the last day of his life when he said the pain of illness that I have is is like the illness of tow man of you .
    Even though he is the best of all creation he always reminded his companion of Akherah and the price of Allah is giving to the patient people .
    What ever our like is as believers we feel comfortable alhamdulillah for every the only life is the thereafter.

  26. Atheists challenge: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?” “Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” Epicurus, 3rd century BCE (so that's before Christianity even existed). So, how would you respond to that, though do note, anything that resembles "you are merely a mortal being how can you ask such a question?!?!" I will interpret as "I don't know the answer.". Take that as you will.

    Answer: Of course God is capable, if He wills, to eradicate /prevent Evil/Suffering. However, it is up to Him as the Omnipotent Creator to let evil/suffering to exist or not. It is His prerogative. That He wills that suffering exists, does not mean that He is” malevolent”, “indifferent to suffering” or “un-loving” as you accused.

    He gave you life and existence in the first place, didn’t He? He gave you eyes to see, ears to hear and numerous (in fact uncountable) other facilities and favours for your existence, didn’t He? That’s an all-loving attribute, isn’t it ?

    However, The One who gives you life, has also the right to take it (or take some parts of it) from you. That’s fair and square. Yes, you will suffer, but He also gives the guidance on how to deal with it and will even recompense your suffering in the afterlife if you follow His guidance on how to respond to it (ie. thru patience). Prophet Muhammad said ,”Never a believer is stricken with a discomfort, an illness, an anxiety, a grief or mental worry or even the pricking of a thorn but Allah will expiate his sins on account of his patience.”

    Your claim and assumption that the existence of suffering is in direct conflict with the All Loving attribute of God, is wrong and mistaken. On the contrary, it is through the existence of pains and suffering that He teaches us true love and true compassion. Haven’t you heard the expression “A friend in need is a friend indeed”? How could you become a loving and compassion friend if no body around you is in need and in pain ?

    For the believers, God the Most Merciful is the ultimate friend in need; He said in Hadith Qudsi (non Quranic God’s revelation to prophet Muhammad) :”I am with those who are brokenhearted”.

    In another Hadith Qudsi it is reported that prophet Muhammad said: Allah (mighty and sublime be He) will say on the Day of Resurrection: O son of Adam, I fell ill and you visited Me not. He will say: O Lord, and how should I visit You when You are the Lord of the worlds? He will say: Did you not know that My servant So-and-so had fallen ill and you visited him not? Did you not know that had you visited him you would have found Me with him? O son of Adam, I asked you for food and you fed Me not. He will say: O Lord, and how should I feed You when You are the Lord of the worlds? He will say: Did you not know that My servant So-and-so asked you for food and you fed him not? Did you not know that had you fed him you would surely have found that (the reward for doing so) with Me? O son of Adam, I asked you to give Me to drink and you gave Me not to drink. He will say: O Lord, how should I give You to drink when You are the Lord of the worlds? He will say: My servant So-and-so asked you to give him to drink and you gave him not to drink. Had you given him to drink you would have surely found that with Me.”

    A saying of the Sufis (Muslim mystics) states:”If you never feel pain or experience problems, how would you know that God is the Healer ? If you never sin or make a mistake, how would you know that God is the Forgiver? If you were never hurt, how would you know that God is the Comforter ? If your life were perfect, then why should there be God, The Most Merciful and Most Compassionate ?”.

    In short, how could we know and show love and compassion, if there is no pain and suffering ? How could we know and appreciate good, if there is no evil ? How could we know and appreciate prosperity and happiness if we do not know adversity and sadness ? How could we know and appreciate about being healthy if we do not know about being ill?

    In many cases sufferings are the result/consequence of our own negligent conducts/ abuse of our free will; so that we have to take lesson and amend our behaviours.

    “Destructions had appeared throughout the land and sea due to what the hands of people have wrought so He may let them taste the consequences of what they have done in order that they will return to the right conducts” (Qur’an 30:41)

    In some other cases, seemingly “evil/suffering events” occur, but actually it happens for a bigger good. Example: When we reintroduce wolves to the wild at Yellowstone national park, it was an “evil event that cause sufferings” for the elks and other herbivores. Yet, it is actually a blessing for the whole Yellowstone environment as excessive foraging by the herbivores are checked, and more balanced ecosystem arises.

    The same with the natural disasters that we experience from time to time. Sometimes they happen due to our reckless behaviours (Flooding or drought due to global warming), which of course we have to take lessons from and amend our behaviour. Sometimes they happen naturally not due to human’s fault: volcano eruption, earthquakes, etc. We may question why those are happening to us, but actually those disasters are mother nature stabilising itself in accordance to the laws of nature as created by Him.

    What is more important is how we deal, manage , react to and grow ourselves in the face of such “evil/suffering”, not the existence of the suffering/evil themselves. Just as diamonds are the product of extreme pressure underground, humans can also excel and grow in the face of such calamities. “So verily, with hardship, there is relief. Verily, with hardship, there is relief. “(Quran 94:5-6).

    “Blessed are the believers, those who are grateful in times of prosperity and are patient in times of adversity,” said prophet Muhammad.

    By asking for a world without suffering you actually are demanding a constant, immortal and eternal life – life without change; life without the cycle of birth, growing, aging and dying – since all of these processes involves pains and suffering. A mother experiences suffering (but also joy) when she gives birth to a baby; when the baby grows to adulthood s/he also experience pain and suffering for each change brings pains (hence the expression “growing pains”); dying of course is the ultimate form of pain and suffering.

    Can God create such a world as demanded by you? Of course He can IF HE WILLS, as he is the Omnipotent. And He will indeed grant just that in Paradise in the Afterlife for those who are grateful to whatever is given by Him and who are patient in times of adversity in this earthly life.

    But too bad for you, for the current earthly life, no such immortality is granted to any living being. “Every living being shall taste death and We shall subject you O people with good and bad by way of trial, then to Us you shall all be returned” (Quran 21:35)

    And again, if that is unpalatable to you, that’s your problem. You are not the one who decide what He has to do or how He should show His Omnipotent and All Loving attributes. “He cannot be questioned for His acts, but they are the ones who will be questioned for theirs” (Quran 21:23)

    By demanding an eternal life and insisting that suffering should never exist in this earthly life as an argument to deny God, you are behaving like an ungrateful spoiled brat who throws a tantrum to his parents because he did not get the toy he wants by calling his parents un loving and worse, considering them dead and do not exist.

    The Creator of the billions upon billions of galaxies is and will always be The Omnipotent, regardless of the negative thinking harboured by an ungrateful creature whose demands for eternal and suffering-free earthly life is not fulfilled.

  27. No Pain
    No Gain, Only
    Through Suffering
    We Grow

    Childbirth, Childhood, Adolescence, Manhood
    Tooth Pains, Truth Pains

  28. Most of those who complain about world' suffering live luxurious/privileged lives.